012 - Jason Shannon I Creating Luxury Retirement Living Communities

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Design Makes Everything Better, a podcast about design as a process for making decisions and succeeding. Now here's your host, Vince. [00:00:09] Speaker B: So for listeners who might be unfamiliar with Jason, Jason Shannon is president of Shanix. Shanix is a prominent senior living and health care provider based in Halifax. And now you have locations in New Brunswick and Ontario. Shanex specializes in developing, managing retirement communities, long term care facilities, assisted living services. So that's what people kind of know about Shanix, I would say. But over the last year that we've been working together and have been getting to know you and the full team, what's really impressive is what it takes to develop and manage retirement communities and all of the people that go into it. When I was looking for you online, I thought you were 1600 people, but as you just said to me, you're actually 6,000 people. Everybody from admin, medical and care professionals. You have affiliated companies or partnership companies that you're also under the umbrella of Shanex that have designers and engineers, builders and building managers and then the culinary team. So just for people who are unfamiliar, the culinary team on its own serves approximately 5 million plates a year, which in the scheme of Atlantic Canada puts that sector alone, not all 6,000 people, but that sector alone, which would have some of those 6,000 people as the largest hospitality company in Atlantic Canada, which is just, it's remarkable how, how much it takes to service all of those different buildings and all the people that are in there. And you know, it started off in the very humble beginnings with your father in Sydney Cape Breton. And for those who are not familiar with Sydney Cape Breton, if you're listening from far away, that is, Cape Breton is an island just on the northern end of Nova Scotia and he purchased a nursing home. And the gap for me is how, how did he come to purchase that and what inspired him to do that? Did he have success in a similar business before or what, what's the beginning story there? Because that was the first purchase that made Shanex what it was and brought it to today, I guess. [00:02:57] Speaker C: Well, listen, you know, it's. I've had that question asked lots of times over the years and I'm not sure people believe the answer I provide or not. But, you know, we still think of ourselves as a, a humble company from humble beginnings. And there's a reason why you don't find a lot online about, you know, who we are. I mean, we do have tried to keep focused on, you know, our customer, our great people. And, you know, we don't really look for the Radar much. And I'm here, you know, in the today, you know, with a podcast that I'm doing really to, you know, I think Break House and our experience over the last year and a half. Vincent has been great and, you know, I honestly feel like we owe you one and because your team's been fantastic to work with and have really contributed, I think, to our future. So I'm here really to, you know, just support your. Your podcast. And also, you know, we're at a point now in our community where, you know, there's a lot of things that people ought to know about shanex. We have a lot of responsibility across a lot of sites, a lot of geographies, especially here, Atlanta, Canada, and certainly growing in the Toronto area. So, you know, being able to share more about who we are is important. Yeah, so listen, my father was the Cape Breton businessman at the time, and Spring Garden Villa was absolutely the place you didn't necessarily want your loved one to be. Quintessential 1960 nursing home. Four people to a room, four people to a washroom, and just didn't have the practices that you'd ever want or feel comfortable in being there. So it was in a difficult situation. And so somehow my father had heard about that. And someone, you know, actually, I think, prompted my father to consider this. He had built up a good reputation for being someone who, you know, could get things turned around as he did in some other big files in Cape Breton, actually. So he, you know, as the story goes, he actually drove around the nursing home, had the deal concluded with Extendicare, who was the owner at the time, and never actually went in the nursing home until after he bought it. And so, and again, as the story goes, at the time we had a computer company and a cable company. And I understand, you know, within the first month he had brought a computer into the nursing home and said, you know, we're going to start changing things. We're going to start, you know, really trying to build standards for how we operate and, you know, work with the frontline team members and the management and reinvest in this 1960 nursing home. And so, you know, we really started with that experience. And he had at the time, also with Extendicare, you know, arranged an agreement to buy two more in Halifax that were not unlike what was going on at Cape Breton. And he really, after a few years, he decided to move forward with the two at Halifax as well and extend a care, had a management contract that he quickly realized, you know, given where we're going and what we're doing, I think it's now time for me to take this over directly. And so he let Extendicare go and was fully in the nursing home business BY really like 93, 94 and you know, trying to build the standards across those homes. And so that's how we got started. And I think, you know, starting with, you know, I would say more complex care, more intensive care, it taught us a lot about, you know, how, you know, disciplined you have to be to have great people in your company, you know, understand how to work with Department of Health at the time and you know, make sure the residents and families feel that they, they know they can trust you. And so I think that's how we got started. And I always tell people, you know, we, you know, like every company, every once in a while you go through this, you know, you look at your visioning statement and your mission statement and you say, you know, who are we? And I remember kind of taking our values and you know, we recasted them, but they were really recast with I think a level of congruency as to where we started. So I would say we're a very values driven organization, which is the piece of the strategy that really hasn't evolved. It's been a consistent piece of it and then kind of everything around that has been an evolution and continues to be. [00:07:09] Speaker B: So when he started with that first purchase and with the following two, what was his role and how integrated was he within the seniors living organization and just setting those standards? Like did he, what level of leadership did he provide to changing that? Was he looking to provide other leaders that are already there the freedom to make the decisions that were necessary to, to bring it up to a new standard or how did he. [00:07:51] Speaker C: Well, at the time I was actually going, I was a Dell studying commerce when that was going on and I got into law school shortly thereafter and I actually he started the board of directors in 93 for the overall group of companies. So, you know, Shannon is one of many companies that we as the family own and operate. So. But I would say he was in, intensely involved. We had a, you know, the, you know, every one of our organizations are professionally managed, professionally governed. But you know, at the time he would have been very involved with the vice presidents and you know, attending very regularly the meetings and you know, trying to make sure that the diagnostics around our quality indicators, our financials and the way we're managing the business with our government partners and that there was a cadence that he believed in. And so I would say he was pretty intensely involved through that cycle. I joined Shanex in November of 98. So you graduated, graduated law school, worked at Stuart McKelvey for a little bit and had an excellent experience. They learned so much through my summers at Stuart McKelvey and with them. [00:08:55] Speaker B: What kind of law did you practice? [00:08:56] Speaker C: It was mostly contract tax. But you know, when you're going through your articleing and your summers, I mean, any lawyer at any time can tap you. So I had an excellent experience in some litigation files. And it's funny, I still know some of the people that I spent so much time with back then. You know, a regular day was probably two days to anyone else, so I learned a lot. But then I knew early on, honestly, I don't know from what grade. I remember, you know, certainly around grade 10, having conversations with people and saying, no, I'm going to go to law school and then come work for the own business. And it really wasn't a big mystery to me as to what I was, where I was going to, where I was going. The fact that I landed at Shanex probably wasn't, you know, as obvious. But, you know, when we kind of looked around and where the company was and what was going on, it was kind of the time and the place for me to go. [00:09:47] Speaker B: Was there like a. Was there a conversation that you had with your sibling? You have a few siblings? [00:09:54] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I have family that one sister and three other brothers. So yeah, no, we have a family. There's five. Five children. So yeah, no, I definitely had conversations because I was on the board going through that period of time. So I certainly knew what was going on. And I actually got a call from my brother Mark and he was the, I think the catalyst to say, you know, time. It's time now. So. [00:10:17] Speaker B: So everybody was waiting. They needed a lawyer on the team is what. [00:10:20] Speaker C: I don't know what it was. I think it was just, you know, the company was growing and you know, he was actually in transfer lanes and. Which is great. And it's kind of always been that way. It's probably, you know, it's really the way dad probably always wanted to be and so. And it works really well. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's amazing. I can't imagine. I'd always imagined, I guess now with Christmas coming up, what Christmas parties and the family are like, if it's a board meeting or like I was talking to your dad at that launch and I was asking him a little bit about the family and who's doing what and he was describing his nephews and nieces as G3s, and there were others, G2s and so on, a second generation, third generation. So I could see in his mind the sort of the org chart of his family tree. And it's almost like there's a parallel to the business structure as well. And I find that really fascinating. So from my point of view, there's this effort trying to find this work life balance and trying to separate the two. And I've been doing what I can to bring my kids into as much as I do as possible and my wife and her business. So it means when we go to events that they're a part of it or they can engage in it so that there's, there's not a. When you arrive and you come home and it's just a separate turn the switch off of business. And now you're just, you're just a dad or just a husband. But that there's this integration because it's feels a bit more supportive to the family and family supporting the business, vice versa. Right. But I just find it really interesting to think of a business to the scale that it is as a family and the trust that it builds amongst the family and how its growth is supported by the family as this sort of parallel stream. And it just, it's remarkable that it's, that it works. And I'm sure that there's all kinds of challenges there that, you know, we don't need to get into in the podcast. But like there's, there's always challenges amongst, amongst siblings. But do you find then with the family that there's this very cohesive vision, like there's this collective philosophy, you know. [00:12:57] Speaker C: I think, a common vision of the group and, you know, what we're doing together. And there were, I would say, you know, a very informed, cohesive group working together. We, you know, my father, again, give him the credit and we started working together at a board level 30 years ago. Yeah. So I think I would say the, my siblings and I, from a business perspective are almost all equally informed what's going on because we have great, great governance and you know, there's great contribution on where we want to go. And so even the project that you and I worked on, the Shannocks and the break house design collaboration here with Bloomsbury, I mean, those are big decisions and you know, so. But it's really the board and the family and my father, you know, making those decisions because they're. It's like a life sentence. Right. When you put this shovel on the ground, this is the 25 years to life scenario you're building, these are not, you know, you're not putting up a Tim Hortons. These are life generational investments and assets. So, you know, I would say those type of experiences over the last 30 years has allowed us to really understand each other, work well together and respect each other and make sure that we're equally informed. And then, you know, they say reasonable people equally informed, seldom disagree. So I mean, it's just one of those things. Right. So, and I do think it's, you know, we're getting better as a, as a group. And so I, you know, value the support of, you know, the board, the family and, you know, when we're making these decisions, because it would be pretty daunting otherwise because undoubtedly when you make these big decisions, there's always going to be bumps in the road. So when you're making the decisions together, then, you know, you're in, you're, you're together when the bumps come along. And then so I think the fabric of decision making has been set up really well in the group. So you can, you know, it's never about us. It's about really, you know, the next generation of the future and our, really our customers and staff. I mean, it's really got to that point and the origins, it started there and I think it is there as we work through our business models. And so that does help avoid a lot of conflict when you get to that point in the way you look at things. And so I think it's been a, a great journey kind of learning that, honestly, because the moment you realize it's not about you, it's, it's a lot more enjoyable and it's a lot less pressure and a lot more as well as. Not less pressure necessarily, but it's really, it's more rewarding. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you're not fighting for your personal point of view all the time like there is. You're, you're fighting for the benefit of a larger picture. So back to university then, before you got back into Shannocks, because, you know, learning the world of law is undoubtedly valuable to everything that you're doing today. But you were also a varsity athlete, a swimmer, very high level competitive swimmer. Have you found the learnings of that and the rigor that it takes to compete at that level influence your way of thinking and how you lead Xanax? [00:16:18] Speaker C: You know, I don't necessarily always draw the direct line between A and B in that instance, but clearly, you know, highly correlated around when you're growing up. I mean, I think it was always in me to be competitive, to be honest with you, from an early age and how is that the energy to spare. So. But I do think, you know, the rigor and the discipline of, you know, high level competitive sports at that level, you know, it teaches something, it teaches you a lot about yourself and then you realize, you know, if you're going to win, you better be willing to work. And so it teaches that work ethic and the discipline. And you know, I kind of parallel swimming to Shanax in a way because swimming every four years gets the glue glorification of the Olympics and it really is the star show. Star of the show every four years. But other than that, who's talking about swimming? Yeah, not a lot. So it's a pretty off the radar area in competitive sports. And I mean within the world of swimming, like when you're in there, it's this ecosystem that it feeds on itself and very competitive and ultra competitive. And you know, when I think about shannocks in a way, I remember when I was first working at Shannon, I mean you go to the party on Saturday night and no one really wanted to talk about old people, you know, or nursing homes. It wasn't really the center of the attention. But then as time goes on, you know, you're a little older and people are like, oh, by the way, my aunt really needs some help. And so I think the mainstream element of what we're doing at Xanax has evolved a lot. And with swimming too, it kind of, there was this kind of oscillation between it being a mainstream sport and not a mainstream sport. But in between the hard work, the discipline, the commitment, the focus never goes away. So clearly that teaches you, builds up some, some internal kind of fabric that you know how to deal with. [00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I think from the outside looking in at, at you and I would say the entire team, you know, as a swimmer, time is everything like it is. It is the only thing that you're really thinking about and it's all about the techniques to shave off a fraction and fraction of a second. And I don't know swimming that well. I was never a competitive swimmer, but. [00:18:31] Speaker C: That'S pretty good remark. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah, but it plays out in what I see, in how you as a leader in Shanex are working with the team. We have to, as an organization, as a team that's working with you, be ready for you to show up early because your punctual sort of nature is off the charts. It's really amazing. And you can see that though dad. [00:19:00] Speaker C: Taught us all that. [00:19:01] Speaker B: Is that your dad? [00:19:02] Speaker C: Okay, well, if you're not 15 minutes early, you're late with Joe, it's. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's amazing. [00:19:06] Speaker C: But. [00:19:06] Speaker B: But that also plays out into the construction schedules that you have. And the. In the way that things are executed is. I have not seen it. And I've been in the construction industry for quite some time now, 27 years that I've been in that space. And people just assume that things are going to be late. It's just this unfortunate expectation that you're going to build in a tolerance for all these delays that are going to be costly and so on. And as soon as we walked into your office and we met you and Darrell and Heather and some of the other leaders in the office, it became so clear within a fraction of a second again in timing, that pace and clarity and speed are really, really, really critical. And then I heard that you were a swimmer, and I was like, oh, my gosh, that makes perfect sense like that. That has to come out of that. But maybe, you know, your dad brought it to you mates. Maybe it's what brought you to swimming. [00:20:18] Speaker C: And listen, I think, you know, birds of a feather or whatever you say, hang out. Right. So listen, I think there's, you know, no one else has Daryl Dixon either. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:20:28] Speaker C: And, you know, Heather's tolerance for, you know, not winning is probably less than mine. So, yeah, there's a. There's a commonality there in the. In the traits that they all brought to the table in their own way. So. And, you know, Darrell and I have been working together day and night for 25 years as well. So, you know, we kind of know each other well. And, you know, no one's going to let each other down at Chanex. I mean, you're going to. You're going to deliver, and that's. And if someone needs, you know, help to deliver, then you give them help, and we all deliver together. So I think there's a cadence there around reputationally, the more you deliver things well, the expectation is the more you're going to deliver things well. So it has fed on itself, you know, over the years, and so there's not a lot of tolerance for not delivering on things well. Yeah, and. And we enjoy it. I mean, honestly, we get a lot of satisfaction out of it. But, you know, you work with people like Darrel and who has, you know, there's no one in the environment that knows more about Darrell, the construction, Darrell. I mean, it just doesn't happen around here for sure. And it doesn't matter who you're talking to, they'll tell you that. So, I mean, that's a pretty good ace in the hole to have when you're dealing with this stuff like that kind of passion. And, you know, he really does care about our residents and our staff and he cares about Joe and the organization and he's, you know, been doing it for a long time. So, I mean, you see that, you know, this isn't, you know, we're. We're refined now. And again, you think about the team and the operating team. I know you don't know a lot of the operating team, but you know, the operating team as well, like the actual. Like you met Elliot. So Elliot would be one of our leaders on the retirement side in Ontario, obviously key in some of the projects around here too. And, you know, Catherine McPherson and, you know, the list goes on of people that are just really uber talented, committed and passionate about, you know, what we're doing every day. And, you know, we get to see the outcomes we're in a really tangible service that can give you instant purpose. So I think that feedback loop that we have on the outcome is very motivating as well. You know, this is not a digital world that we're in. At the end of the day, we're, you know, affecting people's lives and we get to see it. So again, highly motivational to, you know, so that's not. There's nothing coincidental about what you're seeing. It's really a lot of factors driving that when you meet those people for sure. [00:22:48] Speaker B: So I have a question that I want to come back to about the feedback loop that you talked about. But just for anybody listening, Darrell Dixon is a one of the leaders of Design Build, and that is the company that governs and leads the construction side of things within Shanex and Heather is leading all marketing and brand efforts and strategy. So just to put it in context, and then the point you're making about this kind of feedback loop, is there a formal structure in place in terms of how you get information from your residents, or is it just from everybody that's on the ground working with them day to day that come back to you and just tell you passively, like. [00:23:47] Speaker C: What I think today, the filters of opportunity that create change are. There's a very vast, you know, array of ways we were seeking information. You know, my origins of the ultimate feedback loop actually started pretty quickly after I came to Shanax. We actually, it was Easter Sunday in April of 99 and we got the call. I was down at my mom and dad's place in Cape Breton and our 264 bed nursing home that my father purchased earlier in the decade went on strike. So we had 200 and some people on strike in this nursing home in Sydney. And we knew it was coming so we had the bags packed and it didn't take long to get Sydney obviously. And it started a 42 day, 42 night adventure where I actually lived in our nursing home with the residents. And I left one time, as a few of us did, but it was literally 24 hours a day living with the residents and servicing. We had about 24 people managing the home and we had 200 on strike. So you had to understand there was a lot of opportunity for learning. [00:24:53] Speaker B: That's amazing. That is, that is a great immersion. [00:24:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I remember my, I'd sleep in the social worker's office and you know, everybody had a, you know, we figured out who was going to be able to do what. So in my area I had to run the south dining room and, and I also had to, you know, help with getting the meals, kind of getting going and shutting down in the daytime. And I was obviously part of the management group as well, trying to figure out what's going on. But you know, the, really the, the whole kind of first phase of that experience was, you know, let's mobilize and get this place to run. Okay. With 24 people. And even though it was 200 on strike. So that was a challenge. But I'd start off in the morning and I would, the first thing I'd do at 5 o'clock in the morning is I toast off 24 loaves of bread and trying to keep that piece of toast hot, crispy until it gets served at 9 o'clock in the morning. You know, it didn't take me very long to figure out there's something to miss here on what we're doing in our culinary service delivery. And I remember one of the things we started on the south dining room was the hot tea guarantee because they weren't used to getting hot tea at all because the tea was coming. They would, you know, get the tea prepared the main kitchen, you know, two hours earlier and try to keep it hot. And these are the thermos things I say, oh my God, how are you going to have hot tea in Cape Breton like that? [00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:26:08] Speaker C: And so, you know, that was a big, big eye opener, honestly. And as to, you know, really what's, what is, what is going on Here, you know, what is life like? What's the culture, what's the subculture? And you know, what are we really doing here? So those are, you know, 42 days and nights that changed my perspective for life. And I remember when we get through all that, we had opened a retirement home here in Halifax and Dana Schiefer was the culinary executive chef at the time. And I, it didn't take me long to meet with Dana and say, Dana, let's do a 180 here. Like what, what is the opportunity to actually get the hot food out hot and the cold food out cold and rather than, you know, get. Cook the chicken breast at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, how can we get it so it's actually, you know, prepared in front of them. So but, you know, those are the things that, you know, as a hands all over company, you are privileged to experience. And then it's really that competitive drive around, you know, the vision of getting things done well, that you buckle on and say, let's bring in the change to figure out how we can improve things. So we changed the whole thing and with Dana leading the way and, you know, it's been a big success faster and that's, you know, we're now running into Saffron hill, you know, 25 years later. So you don't know where it's going to bring you, right? So, and then honestly, you know, just being there as a general manager, being there with the residents and then our team members care so much. We have great feedback loops. So when you open a building, you know, how badly do we screw something up? Like, honestly, it's just not being emotionally attached to any of your decision making helps a lot where you can kind of clear the slate and say, okay, what can we improve? And so rinse, wash, repeat in that question, you are able to really find a lot of change and make things better where you can kind of. And you really know a lot. And honestly, I think you'd be surprised, I mean, how many conversations you have with the residents and families and the children and then even your own being, I mean, even today we're careful not to even use the word seniors now in the group when we're talking about this because it's just like, what do people want to. What do they want to live really well. And I think of my own enjoyments and the places I've traveled and the experiences I had and, you know, so you kind of have your own personal perspectives that you bring around making the landscape, you know, the design, build Environment, just the canvas for magic and experiences. And, you know, so I think there's just so many ways that we've learned on the journey of building and designing and listening and like you saw probably in the experience, I mean, we're not really hands on, we're hands all over. So. And we don't really like something going out the door until we know we've kind of had a chance to kind of massage it and touch it and we know what we're going to put in front of our great people and in front of the residents. So that's, you know, the feedback loop is it's a continually evolving, but it never kind of stops, right? [00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's amazing. What would you say are some of the more notable evolutions that you've seen in seniors care? Like personal care? I don't want to use the word seniors now that you've said that, but like, in, in terms of how you've developed the buildings, the spaces that are there. [00:29:23] Speaker C: We sound kind of like when Covet happened. I mean, there was this kind of realization across Canada and around the world. I mean, we have a design issue, you know, and they were like, what are we doing? Like, why are we. Why are we having such difficulty with maintaining, you know, safe environments? And why is there so much spread? Why is. What's going on there? And so, you know, I actually hearken back to when, you know, Darrell first joined the company, and we were actually, we were actually tearing down the old nursing homes and building the new ones. And I remember, you know, we had a very, very strong belief at the time in the year 2000, that we weren't going to build nursing homes where we couldn't build private rooms, 100% private rooms. And building small communities. [00:30:10] Speaker B: There were still four per room. Well, they were. [00:30:12] Speaker C: At that point, there was really two residents per room. And what they would generally allow is about 40% would be private and 60% would be semi private. And even to this day in Ontario, I mean, there's still jurisdictions that that's the standard. And. But, you know, when you talk about little steps and ledges that you stand on, I think for us to build 100% private rooms in these new nursing homes we built, 2000 was a great ledge to stand on and say people deserve to have the dignity of having their own place, their own washroom, their own, their own space for their families. And that was a big deal at the time. And, you know, it really put a stake in the ground that we're going to work from the, the the residents preferences and it's really their home. And you know, so that was a big, you know, a moment in time perspective that we said that's one small. It sounds like a small design change, but at the time we had a fought really hard for it. And now the design standards that are there today actually look exactly the way we designed our homes 25 years ago. 100% of private rooms, small households, all the dishes stay at like everything stays in the household that you need for your service delivery. So you know, if people going all over the building and you have your common areas. And so I think we had, you know, we learned really early on that there's the intellectual property and design is critical. And so we started at that time, Darrel and I, we said, okay, we're going to bring in our own, own designers, our own teams. And so we really have been always kind of leading the way in that respect because design matters so much and it's hard to capture when you're getting into some of these specialty areas like the transfer of knowledge to people every time you're going to start one of these buildings. So that was really important. I think, you know, as we get into more of the, the residential community based offerings, you know, we've quickly realized like the resident suite is a massive driver of their decision making. [00:32:06] Speaker B: So we always, they're sorry, their decision. [00:32:10] Speaker C: Making or their decision making to come. [00:32:12] Speaker B: If they want to live with you or not. [00:32:13] Speaker C: Whereas, you know, the industry, it was really more about the common areas and the suites were always kind of smaller and not as kind of utopian. And then, you know, we said no, we're going to spend our energy on the suite and make sure these suites are large enough, they got proper turning areas, they have great storage, they're beautifully designed. And so I always tell people our buildings are best from two to top and our common areas are excellent. But we know the residents were really wanted to have great suites. So we started again when we started designing, building our own buildings. I mean we put a lot of energy into the suites to make sure that they were really designed appropriately for aging in place for, you know, people would be really proud of where they live. And so that was important. And you know, I think just there's just so many different examples of little things that have been happening along the way to change the game and you know, leave behind the 1960 nursing home, the institutionalization and you know, building spaces that are social, you know, where people, families are welcome. Our main street concepts that we built in nursing homes where the whole community can come. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:16] Speaker C: And, you know, a lot of people that move into nursing homes, they can't get out anymore that. Well, it's not an easy venture for them to go down the community halls and those type of things. So, you know, we build main streets to bring community to them and so they feel connected. [00:33:28] Speaker B: So build in a sense of community within. [00:33:31] Speaker C: So that's been a real source of pride. And then I think the other piece that we've been fortunate is the, you know, Atlanta, Canada, you really can expand the whole dynamics of different buildings. So everything from, you know, the nursing homes to really in Toronto. Now, the model that we brought is really kind of the Ritz Carrollton version of seniors living and kind of that very upper echelon with the market was really striving for. That's built on in a lot of the. The learnings from Parkland at the Gardens here in Halifax. We really learned that, ladies and gentlemen, servicing ladies and gentlemen, you know, approach and, you know, making sure that the design and the service delivery kind of all work towards that commonality. [00:34:12] Speaker B: So did you find that that motivation to provide something like that was coming out of maybe some of the onboarding, like if you were bringing in a new resident and they were suggesting that they would like to have certain experiences or they'd like to have more privacy, they would like to do all of these other things within their future experience, that's what led to that. Or do you feel like this was something that wasn't really even requested, but you could see the opportunity for it to do? [00:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, listen, it's a tough question to answer in hindsight, but certainly there's a lot of dreaming that goes on, and there's a lot of things that we've dreamt up that really might not have hit the mark because we didn't kind of, you know, pin it back to in a certain request. But at the same time, we get our residents, they're not shy, so they let us know what they want and we listen. [00:35:08] Speaker B: Well, they're invested. [00:35:09] Speaker C: They're invested and they, you know, they. They're the ones that call in the shots at the end of the day. Right. So, no, no, I think you're bifurcating through both of those. We do. Like I said, you're listening and you're dreaming. And I think the dreaming part is, like, when you think about Bloomsbury, I mean, that's a big dream. And it's not like you can go and say, well, there's one of those in Toronto, isn't There. No, there's not. Right. So in order to get to that point, it's really having belief on probably connecting a lot of the thoughts that you've heard, maybe disparate thoughts into one vision. And so there's a lot of that goes on as well that we have to bring to the table when we start some of these big projects. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Right. I want to have you describe for listeners what the Bloomsbury model is and, and what the vision is and the work that we did together. We have someone here asking us if we'd like something more. What would that. Another glass. [00:36:08] Speaker C: Are you okay? You're okay? [00:36:10] Speaker B: Okay. Are you okay? Kiki, do you need a drink or anything like that? Cup of tea? Water? Okay, let's go. Water. Could you describe to listeners what that. What the 55 plus model is? [00:36:28] Speaker C: You know, that's a great question and I should be able to do that after about 15 years of thinking about this, but it's an answer. I don't think we have the 15 second clip on that one just yet. And we used to, you know, it started off well, we're gonna build Disneyland for seniors. But it's really evolved a lot since that kind of opening positioning, I would call it. I think it's still following the same vision of having people live exceptionally well where they feel connected to their community. They have service delivery at their fingertips, can engage in a lot of social, healthy ways of living, and they can do it with their friends, they can do it their family, they can do it when they want and how they want. And I think Bloomsbury ultimately will drive their own agenda on how things are at Bloomsbury because the club members and the residents will be driving the variety of what's happening every day. And so really, Bloomsbury, I think in its initial construction, certainly it's about living and a place to live that's highly desirable. I think people living within the Albright Life Residences are going to feel they did something well to get there. But I think Bloomsbury is a conduit for a new way of living, honestly, that we have to watch unfold. And, you know, given the jewel of the property and the location. And also scale matters because the scale allows you to do things and keep. Keep your prices in check and allow there to be an affordability to live there for a long time, which is sometimes difficult in some of the more higher end high service areas. So Bloomsbury, I think, allows a long life trajectory from a pricing perspective because we have been able to build the scale and that really matters when you're doing, you know, your math and those type of things. And so, you know, I think, you know, right now to probably answer the question and be about a 15 minute answer to kind of give you, you know, what really life will be like at Bloomsbury. But that's probably capturing a lot of the essence and in the vision. And I kind of go back to. And I think, you know, you were involved in a lot of discussions that we had in design meetings and stuff. I mean, I don't think there was anybody in any room we ever had where we were talking about what it would be like at Bloomsbury that didn't imagine themselves being there too. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's, that's a key. [00:39:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, you know, again, I've been, you know, privileged or fortunate enough to have a lot of great experiences in lots of different places and seeing when things go really well and knowing how I feel when things go well. So. And I think the people that were contributory to the project all brought our own kind of not desires might be the wrong word, but our thoughts on how life can be better for everybody. And again, it's just one of those things. Age isn't as just a number and it's not about seniors or youth or adults or the elderly. It's about people. And I don't really think it matters if you're, you know, 50, 55 or 80 or 85. I mean, when you can build a place like Bloomsbury, you know, you're just gonna get up in the morning and say, you know, I can have a great day today because of what's in front of you. And so that's really vision. The vision is, is it's, it's really not about a demographic necessarily. It's about a way of life. And I honestly, since we did our launch event there a few weeks ago, I've had lots of people come up saying, no, I mean, I, I need to be a club member because I want to have that connectivity and I want to, you know, I want to have that and you know, people that would be, not necessarily ones that you'd think about, but, you know, friends and people that I work with across industry and stuff like that. So I do think it will, it will evolve. I think the essence of it being just a wonderful place for people to live well and engage in life is kind of the closest thing we have to a 15 second clip. But it's going to be a vibrant vibrancy to allow people to be part of things they truly love. Whether it's the culinary experiences, whether it's the cooking clubs, whether it's the library clubs, whether it's the wellness activities, the functional health clinics. Just, you know, if you want to be in the swimming club or you want to be, you know, whatever club you want to be a part of, I'm guessing there's going to be 100 clubs. Honestly, that kind of. That kind of orbit, that run in that orbit each week and each month and brings people together to have common interests. So it's not an easy question to answer, Vincent, but I think it's. It's gonna be one of those things until. Until you kind of get there. I was there last weekend. I was walking around, and as you know, right now it's under construction. It's a big steel grid. And I'm sitting, I'm standing there, I'm looking, walking through these spaces. I'm thinking, there's no way. And I'm looking down the other end of the building, and I'm saying, there's no way. That's the same building down there. I know the scale looks like the. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Town on the other end of the. [00:41:51] Speaker C: Y. I mean, I came from a town of 3,000 people, and we'll probably have 5,000 people connect to this thing in some way or another by the time it's done. So it is its own little community. And, you know, it's going to be very exciting to watch. I'm very grateful. It's outside my office door. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:06] Speaker C: Which is fun. [00:42:07] Speaker B: You get to enjoy all of the amenities there. [00:42:09] Speaker C: You get to enjoy things. And so it's a. It's a big. It's a big project, and it's gonna be a lot of fun. [00:42:15] Speaker B: The part that you, you said that connects most with my point of view on it and the philosophy that we've had in the office is it. It's truly about changing the conversation around senior living or living in the future or seeing yourself in the future. There is a divide. Like some line exists where everybody. And I said this the other day to you. Like, everybody sees themselves as being younger than they are. On average, it's about 10 years. [00:42:50] Speaker C: Right, agreed. [00:42:51] Speaker B: And I'm more on the 25 year younger than I am. [00:42:56] Speaker C: I used to be there. [00:42:57] Speaker B: Yeah. But that there in that belief system, there is a real. There's a core belief system in terms of how we look at each other and those that are older. North Americans are really divided in terms of where grandparents are and where the kids are. You know, I have spent many years living overseas and When I was living in Austria or I was living in Holland, your grandparents and friends of your grandparents are showing up at birthday parties for the 16 year olds and for the 20 year olds. And that sense of community is really, really important both in terms of just general happiness and just life being full of joy at all ages. But it also helps people see that those that are older have a lot to contribute to an event, a party, to socializing. They have wisdom then and things that young people need to connect with versus older people just wanting to feel young. So I think both of them have a place in a space like Bloomsbury. But just generally speaking, the idea that the building and what it stands for is changing the conversation in what people can hopefully consider in terms of themselves as they, as they age. So do you see the Bloomsbury 55 plus model? Is that coming out of a trend that has been growing in the States? Because I know there's a few that have in our research that we saw in the States and some of the discussions around the world. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Well, I think it's building on honestly. I mean we've been developing the lifestyle line of service now for a while and you know, when you look again, agents is a number. But when you correlate the lifestyle product relative to other products, I mean on average they're probably five or seven years younger than the average retirement living client or resident. And so we've been kind of understanding the lifestyle model and thinking, okay, people generally want to experience the social lifestyle and they look at the cost of the fully baked retirement and where you're getting all the service delivery and it's more expensive obviously because you're getting all the services. So on the lifestyle side of things, we've been trying to understand that and it's just really taking that understanding with, like I said, the jewel of the land and the landscape. And if you're going to do something of that scale, then honestly you have to dial in to a business plan that allows you to access a market that's, you know, sufficient. And so there's a whole bunch of combinations that made it possible to think about this being a broader market. I think it's building on the lifestyle experience. It's realizing the scale of what we want to do next door. And you know, from a business perspective, you want to have a certain clientele size that you're catering to and then also a belief from my, you know, from experience, from, you know, we hear from the kids all the time, can I move in? You know, and when you look at what's happening at Parkland and Eglinton west and you think about the way they are living their life. I mean, honestly, who would not want to live there now? The problem is it's hard to imagine you're going to live there for 25 years when you know you're getting that much service delivery. So this model allows you to get there much earlier at a much more reasonable price point relative to an apartment and then kind of incrementalize services as you need it and pick and choose. So I think it was that combination and realizing where we are demographically as well. I mean, that market in the is exploded and there's just a lot of people in that demographic that think that we believe that we'll be interested in a new way of living right in the city. And so, you know, I think it's a combination of all those things kind of brought us to this new model and we probably skipped down a decade or two. But going back to your belief earlier, I mean, I think everyone believes that they're younger than they are, so I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, it's a 55 plus demographic we're talking about. I think there's going to be a whole lot of people that are recently retired that will want to live there because they'll have the time on their hands to enjoy all those amenities and all those opportunities. So, you know, I think you see, we'll see a demographic of the recently retired that see this as a really great place for them. And so, yeah, I mean, and honestly, it's been designed in such a way it doesn't really matter how old you are. I mean, as long as you want an act of lifestyle, it's going to be a spot that's going to be on your radar. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Yeah. How do you see yourself retiring or. [00:47:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm. That's not something I think about. I mean, because you're. [00:47:54] Speaker B: You're 23. 23. [00:47:57] Speaker C: Exactly 25 years younger than I am. Yeah. Yeah. My dad. Well, first of all, when, when my dad retires, then maybe we'll talk about that. But my dad's going to turn 85 this year and he's not retired. So it's not really a word that I use or think about. I mean, I tell people I haven't worked a day in my life so I can retire. And, you know, I love what I do. And it's just, you know, that's not really. I'm seeing myself. There's a big mountain ahead and I'm still going up and there's a lot up yet before I start talking about going down. So yeah, in a lot of ways I, you know, I tell people that our ball game is going to start in about two or three years. And so this is kind of all this is. The dance hasn't started yet for us and so we're just getting ready for the dance. And so no, I don't think about retirement. [00:48:39] Speaker B: That's amazing. So what is a part of that mountain? What do you see in the future for shannocks? [00:48:48] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a loaded question too. I mean, I think it's, listen, I remember I asked my father question similar to that at one point. And I mean, I think the answer was I asked him specifically, I said, when are you going to retire? He looked at me with one eye and he said, no, I'll never retire, Jason. He said, my, my, my role here will just evolve. And I think about our company the same way. I don't think, listen, we're not driven by the quarterly result or, you know, we don't have to worry about, we're not a private company. So we don't have to worry about, you know, beating our earnings estimate by so many percent or looking to grow 15% this year and 20% next year. I mean, that really doesn't drive any of our conversations. I mean, we're really a needs based company and if we see a need that is really not being met, that could change the game, then we will look at that and that will kind of bring us to where we're going. But you know, we do have some very, very well defined divisions in the company and where we focus and you know, clearly, you know, there's still lots more for us to do. And our latest experience and our latest challenges and opportunity really is, is to bring transitional health to our community. And so we've been working hand in hand with Nova Scotia Health here for the last two years in, you know, collaborating and they have a new model care that they're bringing to Nova Scotians. And so we're gonna invite our very first patient, you know, working with Nova Scotia Health from the hospital out to our new transitional health facility out in Hogan Court. And again, for me, seeing what has happened the last two years and the evolution of that service and the just the opportunity to help so many people is a new frontier. And you know, I think it's, it's not like, you know, you think about when we got into retirement, living the first time and where that went and brings you to Bloomsbury, which is A new type of living. You know, our nursing background brought us to this transitional health services. And the fact that we have really kind of invested so much in doing providing nursing home services well, to so many. It brought us to this new opportunity. And I'm so excited by this new opportunity. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Where could you describe it for listeners? Transitional health. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's just, it's a new model that really is coming to Nova Scotia. It's been a model that's been evolving over the last few years in the, in the world. But this is, I think, something that the province of Nova Scotia, the Department of Health specifically, and Nova Scotia Health have put a stake in the ground and say, okay, we're going to, we're going to change the nature of how we can service the population overall. And they said, we're going to get this done. And so we've been along for the ride and supporting those groups in the vision. And it's really just a service delivery that is totally integrated with Nova Scotia Health in the hospital system where, you know, people that ought not to be in the hospital because there are acute interventions are really done and they're waiting for where they're going next. We're gonna go get them and bring them out to this new wonderful place called West Bedford Transitional Health and provide them with all the restorative health supports that they need to get to their home destination. And so we're kind of like an intermediary between the hospital and home and get people out of hospital that ought not be there. So there could be some in the middle of a ortho, you know, like ward that is really designed for ICU or some orthopedics or whatever and, you know, get people that they're there because there's nowhere else from the go. And, you know, they're not really in the environment that really they, they need to be. And so we're going to be this agent that gets the health system turning over and gets the hospital cleared out of all those people. So the really smart people at the QE2 and the doctors and nurses, they don't spend half their day worrying about where's the person going to go or what closet we're going to have to take this, put this person in. And so, yeah, that's our job is going to be to really get people out of the hospital as quickly as possible and get them home as quickly as possible with as many supports as they need this going because we're not that biggest spot. So, no, I think it's a. I would Say no, it's the origins of thought come out of Nova Scotia Health. [00:53:14] Speaker B: I wanted to. Just because we're kind of like, as we're slowly wrapping up a little bit, there are a couple things that I wanted to ask you about. Kind of the. The company culture. [00:53:25] Speaker C: Yep. [00:53:26] Speaker B: When you have 6,000 people and growing at about a thousand a year, you know, like we, you know, the size of Breakhouse doesn't even make up a division in the division of a division of your. Of your company with 17 people. Right. Like, it's just unbelievable. And you know, we work hard to maintain a culture within the company. Right. Like ideas and belief systems and our philosophy and so on. And there's this. I've brought it up a few times in this podcast before because I just find it really fascinating. There's this concept of the Dunbar number. I don't know if you've heard of that before, but it's in the organization of communities. 250 people is usually the maximum group that can hold a community together as an identity where people can recognize faces and know majority of names. And as soon as you get beyond that, then you need a bigger philosophy. Right. So you know, you'd have like religion that would carry millions of people together. Right. And like, so there's a bigger belief system that allows larger numbers of people to stay connected. Right. How do you keep a family business connected to 6,000 people? Like it? It kind of. It blows my mind a little bit. [00:54:59] Speaker C: You never really have a conclusion in that area. So there's a culture, you know, at the Shannocks level, you know who. Who Shannocks is. And then there at every site there's a very strong culture that has its own unique kind of aura. And you know, so it's hard to say that there's a singular culture culture across the whole company. It just. Not that way. I think each one of our divisions even have their own cultures as well. But I think there is commonality going back to those values that I talked about earlier and having really the values is the decision making paradigm that we all kind of work from because they're the one kind of thing in the middle that just never change. So that's a determinant that helps build strong culture. And I really, I agree. I mean the leadership and the qualities of who becomes leaders in your company is so highly impactful on, you know, what happens and with those around them. You know, people come. Do they come to work in fear or do they come to work with optimism? Are they going to feel supported or Are they going to feel, you know, attacked? And you know, this is not a perfect world. I mean, we clearly have lots of degrees of success and failure. You know, I think there's a, I used to use a statement all the time. I mean, no one's made more mistakes than Shanex because we've tried more. Right. And so being own, you know, owner to your mistakes and being willing to change. I mean, you know, we're, we're not dogmatic about, you know, the, the future must be X, Y or Z. I mean, it's really, you know, how can we be better in the future? Going back to one of those core values about continuously improvement and you know, I think there's, you know, there's definitely a work ethic and a commitment to if you're going to make it at Chan X and you probably have to be willing to work harder than most and be willing to be passionate about what you're doing because that clearly is present in, in the leadership in my father, myself and the leaders of the company that, you know, we will get things wrong but, but we will get it fixed and we'll never shy away from making sure it's right at the end of the day and we're willing to try new things. But having said that, I mean you, it's scary sometimes for me to look at where we are and think about that pendulum between, you know, I was believing that I have a core belief that, you know, the decision making for our residents and our employees, you got to put that as much as you can in the general management of that site and then in the division because they're closest to the action and so they can figure those things out. And then each of our divisions have a senior management team that can build their own business plans and bring those in and be accountable for them. And so those are all great core building blocks of business. But there is a fear around this. How do you stay connected? And I just spent the last couple of days trying to figure out my schedule for the next month. I got to get out to the sites. I got to feel that again because it gives you the energy. And I think, you know, they need to know that I'm out there and they need to know our leadership are out there supporting them. So you do lose that when you get tied up in these big projects. And you know, we have 100 meetings with breakouts in one year. I mean, unfortunately there's an erosion of that that is, is detrimental. Then you have to go back and you have to start going at it again, and realizing that culture eats strategy all day long. And, you know, you got to make time for your culture. And so, listen, I think it's one of those things, you know, I learn more about what goes wrong. The more I learn about what goes wrong, the more it's related to culture and leadership. And so making sure we build enough hours in the day for those things is incredibly important. But, you know, I tell you, as a leader, you know, it's one of those things that does keep me awake at night. You know, I worry about, jeez, I haven't been there in so long, I can't even believe it. That's not me. Because, you know, people that have grown up in this organization, I mean, I had a pretty stellar track record of getting out and seeing people and being connected to our teams. And now I rely a lot on our communication, smart people to kind of get me connected digitally and those type of things. [00:59:14] Speaker B: But the true test, like you're saying, is going on site and being in those locations to see how it's living as this sort of organism as culture is. It's constantly changing and to tap into that, but at the same time holding a very long perspective. You know, something that's looking far out and having. Having both of those skill sets is. Is. Is challenging. Right. Because you've got to be thinking about in one day where the next development's going to be. And it's going to start 30 years from now, 25 years from now. Right. Start, like, literally. You're going to conceive of it in a way in, you know. [01:00:00] Speaker C: Well, you're there 25 years. [01:00:02] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:02] Speaker C: You know, the Bloomsbury, we bought that land over the first cup of tea I had on land was 2005. So, I mean, there's your 20 years. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:11] Speaker C: Right. And it's still not open yet. [01:00:13] Speaker B: So. [01:00:13] Speaker C: Yeah, no, you're right. You have to be. [01:00:14] Speaker B: And at the same time, be on site and see how people are. [01:00:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Working and appreciate the great work of our team members and what they're doing. It's, you know, it's. You know, you have to be able to do both. [01:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah. You. You mentioned the, you know, the thing that keeps you up at night or, you know, the cultural components. And how. How do you deal with the. Personally, how do you deal with the stresses of it all? Like, you know, if you're not sleeping at night because you're worried about something, like, you have a. You're shouldering a lot. And how do you. How do you deal with, like, do. [01:00:50] Speaker C: You have A. I think, you know, I, I don't know if I have a mechanism, maybe I should. But, you know, I get my sleep, I get to sleep early and on most nights and I get up early so I don't have a problem falling asleep, which is great. [01:01:04] Speaker B: Well, you literally, you, you, you are in the office at what, 6:30? [01:01:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I like to get in very early. Yeah. Six and stay. Yeah, it's usually 12 hour days. Probably pretty, pretty par for the course, honestly. And, But I've always been up early, into bed early for the most part. [01:01:19] Speaker B: And that's the swimmer mindset again. [01:01:20] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's totally. That's a swimmer mindset. It's. That was kind of built into the DNA early and. Yeah, so I haven't had a lot of issue with that. I mean, I have the privilege of working with great people, so I know they're probably losing sleep alongside me, so. And they will wake up, you know, you wake up in the morning and find the solution. So. But I go to bed most nights, I would say, you know, dreaming, and then the dream turns into a purpose and I think I use that, you know, at the launch event as well. I mean, I think it's, you know, I find there's, I mean, listen, there's been some tough issues over the years and you lose a lot of sleep, but you're sleeping, you're not losing sleep. You're usually thinking and trying to figure out what is the answer, where do I need to go, how am I going to do it? And so that's why we're here. Right. So that's enjoyable for me. [01:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So as we, I know I've said earlier that we'll wrap up, but this is, this is my, my last question for you. What, what do you hope? I know you said you won't retire, but what, what do you hope? The. I don't know if it's legacy, but what will be the, the market you'll leave on Shanex? Is there a hope for you that you can say, you know what, you know, I've nailed this. I can walk away now. [01:02:47] Speaker C: I don't think I'm close enough to the top of the mountain to be thinking about that stuff yet, so. No, no, this is a building enterprise and we're still learning and we're still trying to figure things out, so. Well, listen, I think we're, you know, going back to the values of the organization again. If we can, you know, figure out the needs and answer the needs and do it with our values and you know, a lot of people are better off as a result, then you've left a great mark and, you know, so that's what we've been working on and we'll continue to work on. And, you know, the where, the what and the with whom can be varied. But, but that's certainly something that we want to be very, very committed to. [01:03:29] Speaker B: Awesome. All right, well, thanks for coming in and. [01:03:32] Speaker C: My pleasure. [01:03:33] Speaker B: It's been great spending time with you and. [01:03:34] Speaker C: No, listen, Vincent, I just want to, you know, one final shout out. I mean, it's been, it's been a great intensive year working with Brakehouse and, you know, I think we took a great vision and, you know, I think your team and yourself have added a lot of dimensions around the experiences that people will enjoy. And so I think it's been really awesome to watch the passion that your, yourself and Peter have brought. The branding work with Heather has been, you know, really fun to watch that all come together. And every time something that was coming along is almost like you feel like you're, you know, you're giving birth to a new area, a new era, a new thing. And it was just, you know, so lots of exciting meetings and they're enjoyable and hopefully we'll be able to execute as well as the, as the visions and designs have been done and so we can all be very proud of the work we've done. So thanks to Breakhouse for all that work and hopefully we'll do some more magic in the future. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the same comes from us. Like, we've really, we've had such a great time working with everybody from Shanex and, you know, we've had a lot of different clients, of course, over the years, and you can really feel the big perspective that the team has and the pursuit for something really good and bigger. It's not, and never did seem ever that this is good enough or that's good enough. Is this the best thing that it could possibly be? I would honestly say that working with the team at Shanex, everybody that we've worked with has made our office better. You know, we've really, we know that when you have somebody that you work with that has extremely high expectations, you want to meet that. And, you know, we've, I believe, consistently been able to deliver great work over the years. We've been doing work for a variety of different clients, but when the request is to do something really big, and I don't mean just physically because it is big, but I mean just to do something that is really tapping into something that is about people living the rest of their lives in a place. And what does that need to be like? It's a great question and it's great to participate in that. [01:06:06] Speaker C: And listen, you know, there's. When you think about the skills of Breakhouse, and when I juxtapose that against, like, people like Karen Dixon, who's been leading our internal design for the last 20 years, literally working alongside design build, and you take someone like Cameron Shannon, who is outstanding and he's learned so much, and. And he seems to be putting his fingerprint on everything and. And Kashya, I mean, we have some great, great design team members that are, as you saw, they're so passionate. But, you know, clearly, again, there was no ego in the room ever. I mean, it was just a total collaboration and it allowed them to honestly deliver a lot of the work that they were doing as well. And, you know, everybody settled in so nicely. So, you know, I think that just says good thing about the people, right, that they were able just to put all those things aside and just be so professional and committed and, you know, welcoming. So we have a great team. [01:07:01] Speaker B: Yeah, we both do. Yeah, it's been a great fit. It's been a great fit. Anyway, thank you. Maybe we'll have a part two when the whole thing is finished. Walking through it or something. [01:07:10] Speaker C: It's a big piece of dirt out there. [01:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. But it'll be built in no time. I know you guys. [01:07:15] Speaker C: Lots of ideas to figure out yet. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. [01:07:18] Speaker B: Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. [01:07:20] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Design Makes Everything Better podcast by Breakhaus, a Canadian strategic design firm. If you like the show, help us out, subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast app and share us with your friends. Have feedback or ideas for the show, drop us a line at podcastrakehouse. Cat.